copying narrations

[5boysmama]

I was rereading my Well-Trained Mind and was reading about my second grader copying narrations. He can barely write let alone copy a narraiton! It said 3rd graders should write their own narrations, again, I don't think my third grader could do this. Am I behind? They are both boys, but now I am a little worried with their progress in this area. Any thoughts?
Deb

[Southwest Diane]

I would guess that you'll get answers all over, from those who have kids who are doing their own narrations out of the womb, to those whose kids still aren't when they're in middle school.

Personally, my kids started doing their own in 3rd grade. Interestingly, my bright dd has a harder time (and whines more) and my ds, who is ESL and has LDs, just buckles down and does it. They are both 9, and have been doing their own narrations since they were 8. But we no longer do them every day; it was making history a drudgery and I want them to delight in history and see it as the fascinating story of mankind that it is. I normally will have them narrate a passage that I want them to remember. Or lately, I've been having them write a little mini book report or biography (and I mean VERY mini) on someone like Lincoln or Ben Franklin. I would say we only do this once or twice a month.

As for your son, have you been having him do copywork of any kind? Start with just a few sentences, or even once sentence if he hasn't had any practice. If he copies a line or 2 a day, his writing ability will increase dramatically. It should only take a couple of minutes, or he will get too frustrated. Does he have fine motor skills issues? That of course would be a whole 'nother topic, and I know many ladies could tell you how to handle that.

I hope this helps a little,
Diane

Wow! There is no way my second-grader could copy a whole narration - and she writes fairly well. MAYBE she'll be able to copy one by the end of the year - if I choose to fight that battle, which I probably won't.

My older daughter could not write a paragraph until around fourth grade. She's starting sixth this year and can write a paragraph just fine now; a longer paper is still difficult for her. I was quite worried about getting her to write answers to all the TOG history, literature, and Bible questions - but she managed them just fine this week (Week 1), and I don't anticipate too much difficulty now that the expectation has been set. (I did allow her to write "sketchy notes" rather than whole sentences for a lot of these, but I required written answers so she'll have something to refer to at our co-op meetings.)

I hope to get my younger writing a bit sooner, but I'm not necessarily going to expect it. I'll be thrilled if she can write a few sentences by the end of the year and a paragraph sometimes during her third-grade year; if she doesn't master a paragraph until fourth or fifth grade, I'm not going to worry too much.

There's a tricky balance between training kids to write well by the time they graduate from high school and turning them off to writing altogether. I think if you push the writing issue too soon, they'll come to hate writing; on the other hand, if you neglect to push it when they are ready, they'll never get good at it.

My feeling is that somewhere during the late elementary/early middle school years, kids need to be able to write a good paragraph without too much difficulty; by late junior high they should be able to write a page; and by late high school they should be able to write a 10-page paper including references. That way they'll be reasonably prepared for college-level work. If they can do more, great, but I don't think we need to push for more than that.

I certainly wouldn't panic, in second or third grade, if a child (especially a boy), can't copy or write a paragraph. You've got lots of years to train them to write well.

Just my opinion, of course,

[Kara Larson]

I highly recommend purchasing Ruth Beechick's book "The Three R's". She gives a clear and attainable goal for your whole language arts program. She really speaks to the homeschooling mother that overly stresses but also needs some guidelines. Very freeing!

Hope that helps.
Kara Larson

[Pat]

If you have the first edition Well Trained Mind, I think Bauer may have changed her mind on this.

I recently bought her new book The Complete Writer and they have a sample chapter up which does not recommend writing their own narrations. Take a look: http://www.peacehillpress.com/...hy-writing-fails.pdf

Young writers need time to learn the conventions of their new language.
They need to become fluent in it before they can use it to express new ideas. But
in most cases, students are simply immersed in this new language of writing.
While immersion techniques often work for spoken foreign languages, they don’t
work nearly as well for writing—which is, after all, an artificial code rather than a
natural speech expression.
Occasionally, this process produces a perfectly willing and competent writer—
one who has a natural affinity for writing, and can intuitively grasp those parts
of the process which have not been explicitly taught. But other students remain
puzzled. They became frustrated and resistant, always struggling with the task of
getting words on paper, never competent enough to let their ideas flow out.

In another sample chapter she outlines three stages: http://www.peacehillpress.com/.../04-three-stages.pdf

In third grade, students will begin to use part of their own narrations
as dictation exercises. They will tell you the narration; you will write it down for
them, and then dictate the first sentence back to them. Eventually they will learn
that, in order to write, all they need to do is put an idea into words (something
they’ve practiced extensively through narration), and then put those words down
on paper (which they’re accustomed to doing during dictation).
During the last two years of the elementary grades, you will concentrate on
drawing the two skills together for the student. Some students will be able to
bring the two steps together instinctively, without a struggle. But many need to be
led through the process gradually, with plenty of practice, so that it can become
second nature—and if they are not given this practice, they continue to struggle
into middle school, high school, and beyond.

Don't know if that helps or not.