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Thread: Congress of Vienna scoring system

  1. #1
    As we prepare for our Congress of Vienna simulation, I'm trying to understand how it all works. One thing I don't understand is the scorecard. I understand that each team has goals to achieve, but I don't know what to enter in the "points awarded" column. How many points do I award for meeting each goal? Is it an all-or-nothing thing, or do the kids get more points for almost achieving the goal (but not quite) than they do for failing completely?

    A second question: I assume that the "independent" cup could, in theory, get all 10 tokens for, say, the German question? (Not that the members would ever vote for this, but I want to understand.)

    I will probably come up with more questions as we proceed.

    Incidentally, a number of our rhetoric kids are fairly excited about these preparations. I was intimidated by this simulation, but I encouraged them to try it, and now they understand substantially more about this than I do. I think they're learning a lot!
    Beth
    TOG Year 1
    Doing TOG since 2005
    R (17), D (14), UG (9)
    Math: Singapore Primary Mathematics, Discovering Mathematics
    German, Spanish

  2. #2
    Help, anyone? We're doing the dry run at this very moment and I was really hoping that I would know how to score it by now....
    Beth
    TOG Year 1
    Doing TOG since 2005
    R (17), D (14), UG (9)
    Math: Singapore Primary Mathematics, Discovering Mathematics
    German, Spanish

  3. #3
    I imagine that you Tapestry folks are a bit overwhelmed right now and that's why I'm not getting an answer - I know that you've been working extra hard lately. I'll be more specific about my questions, just in case someone has the time to look at this and clear up my questions before Saturday.

    The scoring sheet lists each country's goals, then has a box labeled "Points Earned." But there's no explanation of how to assign points, or what to do with them. Do we assign, say, 100 points per goal, and then average them? Averaging would make more sense than adding them, I would think, since one country has more goals than the others.

    I would think we would give full marks (say, 100) for achieving the goal. What about for additional success? Say the student is supposed to earn 5 tokens, and instead gets 6. Should that be 120 points? Suppose another student is supposed to get 2 tokens, and instead gets 3. Should that be 150? Seems unfair, since that student could then theoretically reach 500 points, but the first student could only get 200, tops. But I can't figure out a different way.

    What if those same students got one less than they should have? Should the first student get 80 points, and the second 50?

    Or is it an all-or-nothing deal: succeed and you get 100 points, nothing for extras; fail and you get 0 points on that goal?

    Someone must have an answer for this. My students are really enjoying this, but we're frustrated by not knowing how to score this.
    Beth
    TOG Year 1
    Doing TOG since 2005
    R (17), D (14), UG (9)
    Math: Singapore Primary Mathematics, Discovering Mathematics
    German, Spanish

  4. #4
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    As long as you're answering questions ...

    Under Additional Scoring Details, 2. War Tensions on p. 79, the second paragraph talks about counting "no" votes. In the paragraph it talks about failing to acheive a German settlement. Does this mean it is possible to have no solution/settlement on a question? If so, what happens to those chips?
    Dawn
    Mom To The 4 Es

  5. #5
    Vice President
    Lampstand Press

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    Hi Beth and Dawn,
    I was not able to do this with my boys, so I'm not speaking from experience here...feel free to correct me!

    Take #1 (The "Polish Question"). After the "delegates" have made their presentation that their country wants Poland, the issue groups come to a mutual agreement. If they decide that Russia should have the majority of the territory, then it would get 4 tokens. The rest of the territory should be evenly divided between the other countries, which would result in Austria, Britain, and Prussia each receiving 2 tokens.
    (If you don't have enough people for issue groups, I'd bring in mom and dad to help come to a mutual conclusion.)

    After that lengthy process, you'll go on to the 2nd and 3rd questions, again forming issue groups after presentations have been made. Again, divide out the 10 tokens according to who made the best case for their country.

    Regarding the "no" votes...it's possible that the issue groups won't come to a conclusion and thus war will break out. If this happens, take the # of leaders who voted "no" (on any of the 3 questions) and multiply it by 10. Using the example given on p. 79, there were zero "no" votes for the Italian question, but on the Polish question, there were 2 votes for a Polish settlement. Lastly, on the German Question, there were 3 that voted "no." Therefore, there is a 50% chance that war would break out.

    Then you look at the scoring chart on p. 80 to determine the final outcome. Which objectives were met? If Austria got 3 out of 4 check marks by their objectives, then their percentage is 75%. If Russia receives 2 out of their 3 objectives, then their percentage is 67%. It is possible that there is no clear winner because the percentage of war is equal to or higher than the others.

    I'd love to hear your responses on this...
    Dana C. in TN
    Vice President
    Lampstand Press

    "Let my teaching fall like rain and my words descend like dew,
    like showers on new grass, like abundant rain on tender plants.
    I will proclaim the name of the Lord. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!"
    Deut. 32:2-4

  6. #6
    So, you're saying that it's just a check/no check mark on the chart on page 80? Credit for accomplishing it, no credit for accomplishing 80% of the goal? That is workable but doesn't seem to reflect the complexity of the situation - and the chart is labeled "points earned" or "points awarded" or something, which made me think that they had something more complicated in mind.
    Beth
    TOG Year 1
    Doing TOG since 2005
    R (17), D (14), UG (9)
    Math: Singapore Primary Mathematics, Discovering Mathematics
    German, Spanish

  7. #7
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    We did the Congress last time through as brand new newbies- 9 weeks into TOG and it didn't seem so confusing then....

    We are doing our re-enactment today. The scoring component is what the student's are most confused about, but I think I figured it out this am. I think the war tensions and national unrest issues are what is complicating the picture. The student's seem to think that this changes there ability to win. This morning I was looking at my old green page supplement from TOG classic to see if it made more sense tyhe way it was originally written. At the top of the scoring page it clearly states that the way to win is to get the most objectives completed ( percentage wise). War tensions and nationalism won't effect the score for each team.

    We did the Congress last time through as brand new newbies- 9 weeks into TOG and it didn't seem so confusing then.... I guess we have the TOG fog to thank for that LOL!

    We are doing our re-enactment today. The scoring component is what the student's are most confused about, but I think I figured it out this am. I think the war tensions and national unrest issues are what is complicating the picture. The student's seem to think that this changes their ability to win. This morning I was looking at my old green page supplement from TOG classic to see if it made more sense the way it was originally written. At the top of the scoring page it clearly states that the way to win is to get the most objectives completed ( percentage wise). It's on the rewrite page too, but I haven't noticed it until today or have gotten caught up in the war tensions and nationalism question. *sigh*

    So to clearly understand, the war tension and nationalism question will not determine the ultimate "winner (country)" for the simulation, but will determine the ultimate success of the Congress reenactment as we don't want war tensions to break out?

    Now, the confusing part I guess would be a situation where no proposal won on a particular question? In the war tensions section it references as an example a situation where there was no agreement on Italy so there were "0" no votes. How could that situation actually happen? Don't the students have to come to some sort of agreement? or is not coming to an agreement, a decision after all with all territory remaining with France then?

    Very intyeresting discussion thus far, thanks!

    Dawn
    Dawn
    Mom To The 4 Es

  8. #8
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    We did our Congress yesterday. We had 18 students participate, although we allow our dialectic students to participate on a team with a rhetoric captain. We included the dialectic 4 years ago (our first time through) out of necessity because we only had 4 rhetoric students. Even with the dialectic last time I still had to represent a team! I think that having them participate last time really helped this time, as those that participated last time really "got it" this time through. Those that weren't around last time had more difficulty understanding the whole concept (but were still successful). It was not mandatory for the dialectic students to participate (there was some extra work for them as their assignments did not cover the Congress) , but most chose to do so. Here's how we did it:

    I put up white poster paper ( Post it Note kind from Sam's) 2 for each question. We drew numbers to determine which country would present first. For each question, each team gave their initial proposal for the division of land and the reasoning behind their proposal. I wrote their proposals on the paper for everyone to see (percentage of land division). We then allowed questions or comments as a group. Then I gave the delegates 5-10 minutes to barter/ form alliances and trade votes. We reconvened and I allowed each team to change their proposal and gave more time for discussion or debate. We then voted on the proposals. Our countries determined they would like to have a secret ballot, but I think an open ballot may have proved interesting.

    We tallied the votes for each proposal and the majority won. We decided that to have an unresolved proposal did not make sense as the delegates would have continued debating until a decision was reached in the real Congress. We divided the tokens and moved on to the next question to repeat the process.

    My husband created an awesome Excell spreadsheet that calculates the country's scores and the possibility of war tensions and nationalism. It is very easy to use, but does depend on each proposal being decided based on a division of the tokens. He is willing to share with anyone who would like a copy.

    One other thing, we gave an extra point if a country came in costume and a 1/2 point if only half the team was costumed. It didn't change the final results, but it made it more fun!

    Dawn

    Forgot to add that our scoring strictly followed the score card found on page 80. The 2 winners both achieved 100% of their goals/objectives.
    Dawn
    Mom To The 4 Es

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