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Thread: How do you subsitute History reading

  1. #11
    Dear Deb and other Moms,

    Thank you for your poignant message. I was touched with your honesty about struggles with raising kids and your desire to honor God in doing it. Our kids are immersed in a culture where kids are exposed to so many things that they most definitely need us to walk with them through deciphering the maze of ungodly ideas.

    We too have struggled with issues with our 14yo son and in wading through the reasons why he said he was curious because of images he saw on the covers of magazines at the grocery store checkstand! The poor guy now waits in the car while I pick up milk! All this being said, we as parents are our children's guardians; not only physically but spiritually. We arm them with information as they are mature enough to handle and when the situation is necessary for them to know.

    I have used TOG for 4 years, this being my second with a Rhetoric level student. It blends so well with my multi-aged homeschool. I have so enjoyed the discussion times with my Rhetoric and Dialectic kiddos. Rich!

    This year I have been disappointed with the spine choices for both R and D students. I agree wholeheartedly with Deb regarding the Idiot's Guide. We have used it sparingly and did not purchase it. The America in the 1900's and 1910's is one I did purchase and am extremely disappointed. It is an easy read for Rhetoric students (too easy) and appoaches subjects such as the creation of Planned Parenthood with a supportive tone. A second book in this series is scheduled for Unit 2. I will be seaching for other resourses. Also, The Three Whys of the Russian Revolution is a wonderful book. As a history minor, I myself thought it was very well done. It also assumes previous study of 20th century topics especially a basic understanding of the Revolution and some other historians writings of the 1960's. My son did not get much out of the reading since this was his first time studying 20th century.

    Previous year plan that have been redesigned have been fabulous. Was year 4 finished too quickly? There are other possiblities for materials. The Pages from History series: A History in documents was great. Lots of primary documents to examine. The American History by Era was another great series. This one used essays to cover periods of time. Very well done. These were both used in year 3. We are going to look for others in these two series as replacements. As for reading assignments dovetailing with discussion questions, it will mean Mommy burning the midnight oil to make things come together.

    My family and I have been so blessed to be using TOG with our four children. I want to keep using TOG and I have really appreciated being able to take the resources provided and just run with them. We would appreciate a review of resources and if one of them has some adult-oriented content, please give us a heads up in our teacher's notes so we can best determine how to use the resource. Thank you for listening!

    Shelli

  2. #12
    I thought I would post again since we have been doing school now for a few months. We have decided not to use the Idiot's Guide. I really feel like my daughter is not ready to hear a lot of the content. I moved her to UG for some of the history. She reads War, Peace, and All That Jazz and then she reads the other history selections for Dialectic. I wanted to start slowly on discussions with her anyway so we only have discussions on Church History which we are both LOVING. I am hoping then when we start year 1 next year we will be able to pick up the discussions for history. I don't feel like I have enough knowledge of how discussions work to make up my own discussions. If my daughter was older I might use the Idiot's book as a spring board for discussions about the world around her but at this time I don't feel she is ready. I'm so glad that others have taken time to write on here. I hope the discussion continues. Thanks so much for the mom's who have shared!
    Mom of four -Training the hearts of Sara, Hannah, Grace, and Silas for the Lord.

  3. #13
    Just wondered if Marcia ever responded to Deborah's post above? This is my third year in TOG and I have loved the teacher led discussions of years 2 and 3. I have not looked forward to covering our century which is so prevalent with blatant and gross defiance of God's commands. I want to teach the facts without getting into too many details of evil.

    Thanks!

    Mary

  4. #14
    President, Lampstand Press
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    162
    Hi, Ladies!

    Somehow this thread flew under my radar: my apologies. I just LOVE the hearts of you ladies in desiring to protect your little ones and feed them what is truthful and honorable. Let me start my response to DebG by saying, "Do what you feel led to do concerning your child. No one knows her better than you do!" This is my constant refrain with any of our suggestions.

    We do our best to find resources that will serve a majority of families to the best of our ability. Year 4 is especially problematic because of the raunchy, Godless content of the history of a world that has cast off its moorings from a living faith in Jesus Christ, and then magnified when any of our kids are on the young end of the upper levels.

    I can TOTALLY understand DebG and others not wanting to discuss aspects of our increasingly depraved culture with children who are not ready for them. In this case, though, it's hard to find resources that both cover the century AND are grade-appropriate.

    Shellicc: your observations about the book choices for Year 4 interest me, and I'm glad to see you making alternate suggestions. Be assured that it was not that we were writing too quickly; we devoted the same number of months to Y4 as other previous plans.

    Here are our limitations when choosing primary resource books for Tapestry:
    1. Book must be in print. Year 4 is an especially challenging year-plan for this aspect. When we first wrote Classic Year 4, it was just after the turn of the millennium, and there were TONS of books to choose from. When we came to rewrite TOG for Redesigned Year 4, it was REALLY disheartening to find how few really excellent books there were that we could recommend as Core books. We found a number of interesting in-depth ones, but Core readings settled into more "overview" types for both D and R levels than had been true for previous years.

    2. Book must be truthful/accurate in the main and plain. (Most secular books contain SOME interpretations or biases with which Christians will not agree, and Idiot's Guide is no exception. We try to use Glances and rely on your skimming chapter and title sections to discern their use with your children. We also skip assigning truly offensive passages, or else deal with them head on in our discussion outlines, after warning you in the Glances.)

    3. Books must not, cumulatively, require too heavy a reading load. In this, remember that students are USUALLY reading at least two history resources per week. We try to keep reading page totals to a certain number. To this end, a book like Idiot's Guide is useful because the readings are short and provide context for the in-depth offerings. Similarly for Rhetoric core books on Year 4 (see more on this below).

    4. Books cannot be too expensive. Money is simply a limiting factor for most homeschooling families. In a perfect world, this wouldn't matter, but in the fallen world--and present US economy--it's a real factor that we have to take into account.

    There are not a lot of books that fit ALL these criteria simultaneously, and we always have to make some compromises. That said, as I wrote above, we are ALWAYS happy to hear alternate suggestions. You should use the "suggestions" email button at the top of this board to make such suggestions, so that Dana is sure to see them. The great thing about DE is that we can make changes fairly easily, and replace books as better options come along.

    As for "America in the 1900's... etc." books, again, we thought that they presented a highly digestible core background, and sought to balance (and lighten) the study of the 20th Century with a year-long focus on the essence of leadership, as expressed by the giants of the era. Since the topics were heavy enough, we sought to make the reading a little easier. Hence, our choices also of interesting and not-overwhelmingly difficult Marrin books on Hitler and Stalin, as well as in-depth readings on FDR and Mao. Because Y4 is new this year, R students may have gotten the Russian Revolution for the first time, but we have to write the curriculum once again balancing: we balance, in this case, the needs of those who come fresh to TOG in High School years with those who have had one or two rotations. For those returning to Year 4 from a Dialectic rotation, the Russian Revolution will not be new.

    These are some of the reasons why we made the choices that we did. Again, Shelli, I'm interested to see your suggested alternatives, and we'll be eager to look into them and see if, in any of them, the Lord might be providing a better fit for a majority of Tapestry users.

    So, those are my thoughts in response to this interesting thread. Thanks, Ladies, for all that you do before the Lord to instruct your children in HIS ways, and I would echo Gayle in saying once again that YOU are the primary steward of your children's souls, and YOU are the only one to determine which resources to hand your children. We're doing our best to help, and we're eager to do even better as time goes on.
    Blessings,
    Marcia

    No one can do me a greater kindness in this world than to pray for me.
    --Charles Spurgeon

  5. #15
    President, Lampstand Press
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    162
    Originally posted by MaryAnnetteT:
    I have not looked forward to covering our century which is so prevalent with blatant and gross defiance of God's commands. I want to teach the facts without getting into too many details of evil.

    Thanks!

    Mary
    Hey, Mary

    I know EXACTLY what you mean, and we adopt that approach as much as we possibly can with Grammar students using Year 4, but here's a thought for us all in considering what to teach our maturing teens.

    The evils of the world in which we live are real, and your kids are going to have to face them, sooner than you think possible. As your kids become post-pubescent (like, 14 or 15) they'll begin to move in ever-widening circles outside of your home. Within four or five years of that time, they'll be done with high school and start college, or move into the work force.

    The evils of our day permeate the Internet, the TV news and newspapers, talk radio, and the conversations of virtually all adults. Though it seems REALLY REALLY hard to introduce these sullying topics to our pure and holy children, if we do not, how can we best prepare them for the deluge to come?

    I am REALLY asking this question of you ladies. It's not gratuitous. I've asked it of myself, and came to the conclusion that I had to teach my kids about the evils of our society in order to prepare them to process it biblically. That said, I didn't dump it on them too fast or too soon. EACH of us HAS TO get before the Lord, who gives generously and without reproach, to find the answer to this question. And, as with all battles, the Lord may have different strategies for different ones of us. We need to share, trusting that each of us is prayerfully walking to the best of her ability before the holy God whom we all love.

    I would love to hear how everyone approaches this parenting quandary of our times. :]
    Blessings,
    Marcia

    No one can do me a greater kindness in this world than to pray for me.
    --Charles Spurgeon

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cville
    Posts
    1
    pure and holy children
    I definitely don't have answers to this tough question. We went through classic year 4 when my son was dialectic level and my daughter was upper grammar. They were confronted with the ills of society and yet weren't overwhelmed. It's a tough balance and I'm thankful TOG helped us wade through.

    I would just like to address your pure and holy children statement. Wow, where did you get pure and holy children?
    Mine are sinners just like their mom.
    Have a great day,
    Stephanie

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